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Post by Tractorpull on Oct 11, 2019 10:04:49 GMT -6
In November 2018, I posted an article concerning the disappearance of decisions from the FCBA results. I pointed out that in September/October of 2009, knockouts comprised only 80% of the wins. This year, in September, knockouts comprised 100% of the wins. Since the beginning of the year there have been 659 fights in the FCBA, 328 of them being in PPV’s. How many of those 659 fights went to a decision? Three. Thats a decision ratio of 0.004 There has not been a decision since February. I raise the issue again because I note some writers include records in the write ups including the number of wins and the number of wins by knockout. I suggest that those two numbers are redundant and misleading. Most fighters entering the FCBA since 2016 have never been involved in a decision. Those numbers could and eventually probably will lead in erroneous conclusions
For example, take three Hall Of Fame members. Cat Bell’s knockout ratio was 47%, Ali Landry;s was 60% and the great Theron 65% By contrast, Kendall Jenner’s knockout ratio is 100%. Ambrosio’s 100% and Rhoda 100%. Some will conclude that Jenner, Ambrosio or Rhoda are heavier hitters than the three Hall Of Fame members and that would be an erroneous conclusion. Theron’s last win by a decision was 1/24/14. Since that time, every win has been by a knockout. Did suddenly, after 15 years of fighting, she suddenly start to hit harder? If you believe that, I have a dam on the border on Nevada and Arizona I would like to sell you
Don’t misunderstand me. As for as Tractorpull is concerned. What counts is wins and not how the fight was won. In the Hall Of Fame requirements, we do not track knockouts. I don’t have a problem of how fights are currently won, but I do have a problem how those results might be interpreted. Times have changed since the current members of the Hall started. Their KO percentage will be inferior to the current crop, but were they inferior fighters? Not at all, and could it be the reverse? The times have greatly changed and that change has to be considered
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Post by Vassago on Oct 11, 2019 10:14:45 GMT -6
Home runs in baseball, 3-pt shots in NBA, passing yards in NFL. The list goes on. FCBA is all about offense these days too. I don't see a problem with that  |
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Post by Tractorpull on Oct 11, 2019 12:16:57 GMT -6
TESS VALMORE
The problem is now you interpret those offensive statistics of today against previous years. More home runs does not necessarily mean better hitters especially with todays juiced ball. More knockouts doesn’t mean heavier hitters. All your examples depend on how the game was played and in each case of your cases the game is played differently than the days of yore. That doesn’t mean todays players are better than player ten years ago. But then you never see anything other than what you want to see
I’m done
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Post by Vassago on Oct 11, 2019 12:41:20 GMT -6
Well, if I see two 40-year olds in a FCBA fight I'm shocked if the fight lasts beyond five rounds tbh. Michelle Williams is 39 years old and has 220 fights. Last October she beat Olivia Holt then-21 years old in her 12th fight via KO12. If you tell me a woman 17 years older has a superior durability then her opponent I just don't buy that regardless of the overall status. Inside five rounds I take Williams over anyone but after 12 rounds? That just doesn't feel right especially at lower weights when it's usually the high-tempo production. I read several stories where a welterweight clash between two women in their late 30s had as much zip as any flyweight battle between two 21-year olds. That looks awkward at best. There's a steroid culture in boxing, if you don't like the juiced balls, how about accepting juiced fighters in FCBA?  |
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Post by The Dollhouse on Oct 11, 2019 14:09:11 GMT -6
I agree that the 'wins by KO' stat is kinda redundant considering 98% of wins are by KO. I always thought so.
But I'm not sure removing it now is even possible considering it will require a lot of work to remove that from the archives wiki.
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Post by Tractorpull on Oct 11, 2019 15:50:26 GMT -6
I didn’t mean remove KOs from the Achives. That would be too big a. job. I would like to see them removed from fight reports
My main concern is comparing todays fighters with those of ten years ago and considering one edition superior to the other
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Post by Vassago on Oct 11, 2019 15:59:55 GMT -6
Let's face it, most of the Hall of Fame members are either retired or semi-retired anyway. This board is supposed to be about entertainment not about analytics dating back 15 years or something. Theron is the GOAT and nothing changes that even if Rhoda wins her 55 next fights via KO. What's the big deal? Is Tess running out of ideas what to criticize next? Just let people write the stories like they want to. Guess we're doing too good and there's always some Debbie Downer wagging her finger just because.
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Post by The Dollhouse on Oct 11, 2019 16:05:48 GMT -6
Yeah its a bit too nitpicky imo. Just don't compare fighters using this 'stat' as it is irrelevant. That would be enough.
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Post by sceej on Oct 11, 2019 21:45:14 GMT -6
I am very loathe to comment on anyone else's efforts much less complain. I enjoy the FCBA site immensely, have since the much missed days when Simguy ran everything. That said, I'll comment.
It seems to me that the dicing system has to be looked at as two things have been lost from the heyday. First, is the fights that goes to the cards - yes it is a drag to write ten full rounds and sometimes that can be addressed by accordianing - ex. "Rounds 6-8 Slow inexorable grinding breakdown of J-Mac under the relentless body attack of a grimly smiling Neve Campbell" (and where have I heard THAT script before!!!!). The point is, fights that go to a decision have an important place. Its realistic - not all fights should end in KOs. In addition, does ANYTHING set up the bitter demand for a rematch quite like a narrow split decision loss?
The other thing that has been lost? The early knockout! Seems every fight goes between 5 and 8 rounds these days. Lost are those stunning first round KOs where the crowd barely gets seated and one girl is on her back listening to the man say "... 8 ... 9 ... 10 ... yer out!" These add a LOT of excitement and for all their brevity are among the most memorable of fights. Again, drawing on my own stable, maybe the high point was Jenny Mac's first round blitzkrieg of arch rival Kate Beckinsale in Jenny's first title defense ever.
Just some thoughts and suggestions. Would love to see the return of the decision AND the early knockout!
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Post by Vassago on Oct 12, 2019 7:00:45 GMT -6
I can agree on the early knockout. That's pretty much gone too. I had the luxury of writing back-to-back KO1 wins for Romee Strijd but other than that I can only recall one at the Asylum at the expense of Alana de la Garza. KO1/KO2 is basically non-existent anymore. Jessica Lowndes' biggest career victory is still her KO1 destruction of Michelle Williams back in 2013 This is the only KO1 loss Williams has ever suffered in her 220 fights  |
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Post by Lookout! Boxing on Oct 13, 2019 1:24:34 GMT -6
First of all, I want to say thank you very much for the feedback. Obviously, the league is in a very successful place if we're having over 600 fights and the year isn't even over yet. That's pretty stunning and we definitely want to keep that going. Of course, all of the credit goes to the amazing team of writers, managers and fights out there who come up with amazing ideas, material and stories every month to keep the FCBA such a vibrant and thrilling place. Stuff like this is part of it and I'm glad you brought it up.
Second of all, I definitely try to keep the results varied as possible, but looking over the statistics, I can definitely try to improve. If you are looking for some early knockouts, without giving too much away, you'll see a few in the upcoming PPV! Like has been mentioned, it is a lot for any writer to write a full ten round bout to a decision, but those can be balanced out with some early KOs in there too and there are some strategies to help make those long write-ups a little bit more manageable.
Now, I do want to say that there won't be any adjustment of the archives and I don't think anybody is really advocating for that. That is a time-consuming task and an exercise in frustration as it's difficult enough to keep up with the flood of matches as is. Plus, I wouldn't worry too much about the KO stat - when people compare fighters from different eras, I think people will understand that those are different eras and can take that into consideration, like people do when talking about sporting teams or dynasties from different eras.
However, there are some clear and obvious concerns with the results. That's on me and I'll have to work on that. Our goal is to have things fun, realistic and enjoyable. We'll work on making those that is taking place as much as possible around here!! Anybody who has any other thoughts, feedback or suggestions, I'm always open.
-Lookout!
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Post by Archer on Oct 13, 2019 10:53:53 GMT -6
I just want to say as a writer that a knockout makes for an exciting end to a fight, though, of course, a UD10 can have plenty of excitement too. The "Wins by KO" was there when the Fighter Profile Template was started and I agree it would be too much trouble to change now. How much weight to give it when evaluatng a fighter is an individual matter. I also want to thank Lookout for all those results (600!? And it's not even Halloween! . You are much appreciated. sir. A discussion like this just shows our little group is alive and thinking. Archer |
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Post by Lookout! Boxing on Oct 13, 2019 13:42:32 GMT -6
I just want to say as a writer that a knockout makes for an exciting end to a fight, though, of course, a UD10 can have plenty of excitement too. The "Wins by KO" was there when the Fighter Profile Template was started and I agree it would be too much trouble to change now. How much weight to give it when evaluatng a fighter is an individual matter. I also want to thank Lookout for all those results (600!? And it's not even Halloween! . You are much appreciated. sir. A discussion like this just shows our little group is alive and thinking. Archer To be honest, when I was responding last night, I didn't even think about that. 600 plus results and we're not even to the end of the year - I hadn't even thought about how much time goes into just creating the results. Then, the awesome and creative storytelling takes a lot of time as well, so kudos to everybody. It takes a real team effort to put this stuff together on a monthly basis and the writers, managers and everybody involved deserves all of the credit. Each month, I'm just focused on trying to get out the results that sometimes I'm not paying attention to how varied they might be, so I really appreciate the feedback. But, I agree wholeheartedly that the passion and excitement and interest with these kind of dialogues and discussion shows just how exciting this league is for everybody.
Thank you all very much!!
-Lookout!
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